Curse

Bryant Again · Jul 16, 2008, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Actually, heroes are only as good as the builds you can look up on wiki. Unless you are manually controlling your heroes and their actions, they are pretty much are on "auto-pilot", so the skill/experience level of the individual player isn't really relevant.

Not always the case. Due to the heroes being on auto-pilot, they rarely know how to use a build effectively: they screw up casting order, don't know what skill to use on how, and when to *not* use a certain skill. So that's why you have to give them a build that the AI can handle with and be able to use effectively, and people don't always keep that in mind.

Not to mention that some of the Wiki's builds are often insanely questionable...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

Even the best player in the game with the 3 greatest Hero bars ever conceived is still going to have problems doing some high-end Vanquishes/HM Missions just because of the pitifully stupid Hero AI.

At least you know that they'll be a bit on the silly side. But I'll tell you one thing: Binding my flag/unflag buttons to Z and X has got to have been one of my smartest ideas ever. It's saved my ass countless times, and I highly recommend it.

Div · Jul 16, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Why they haven't allowed us to use 7 heroes is beyond me, but apparently Anet doesn't have any plans for it. Signed regardless.

Xebedinct · Jul 17, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

/signed

nidy · Jul 17, 2008, 01:20 AM // 01:20

While you do bring us some valid points, your analysis is biased and quite immature. Maybe if you would stop calling other people "children with psychological problems" and didn't tell them how to play their class they'd be more enjoyable. But forget it. Take your full party of heroes, I don't want to play with people with your attitude. You caused the problem your citing.

Infectious · Jul 17, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by nidy

While you do bring us some valid points, your analysis is biased and quite immature. Maybe if you would stop calling other people "children with psychological problems" and didn't tell them how to play their class they'd be more enjoyable. But forget it. Take your full party of heroes, I don't want to play with people with your attitude. You caused the problem your citing.

And exactly which PUGs are you playng with?

nidy · Jul 17, 2008, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infectious

And exactly which PUGs are you playng with?

In my experience people often aren't childish or hard to deal with. Of course if I started telling everyone how to play their class they might get a little pissed.

Marverick · Jul 17, 2008, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Unfortunately when I get Monks pinging Healing Breeze and Heal Other and crap, it's either I tell them how to play their class now and hope that they listen or party wipe later and waste time.

And yes, people are childish and hard to deal with. Even when you don't bitch at them. Back in the days of 5-man Sorrow's Furnace, I'd get this about once every 3-4 runs. "We can't do this without the Flesh Golem!!!!" /leave

I wouldn't call it psychological problems, though. It's just that people aren't willing to try new things and think outside the box. They aren't willing to think at all, sometimes. I really wonder how anyone could run such terrible builds and not find anything wrong with them.

Well, it's a game; you can't really blame them. But we shouldn't be forced to play with them when guildies/friends aren't available.

Keekles · Jul 17, 2008, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by nidy

In my experience people often aren't childish or hard to deal with. Of course if I started telling everyone how to play their class they might get a little pissed.

I hardly ever PUG, only if I'm bored to the point that I want to see if I can find another needle in the haystack (that's what finding a good player in a PUG feels like). I play with friends and guild/alliance-mates mainly.

Every time I've been in a PUG, they do not know how to aggro properly, start blaming me when they've overextended into another mob and died, and are generally exactly what the OP stated. I have only found ONE person out of a PUG that I still play with, ever. Every other player I've been in a PUG with was childish, immature, vulgar, and inexperienced. They either don't know how to play, or intentionally play bad to make it harder on other people. Either way, I no longer PUG. PUGs themselves are a reason for me not to PUG.

glacialphoenix · Jul 17, 2008, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by nidy

In my experience people often aren't childish or hard to deal with. Of course if I started telling everyone how to play their class they might get a little pissed.

Yes and no. Some of the people I met in a PUG are the rudest people I've ever had the displeasure to play with in GW. Trashtalking in PvE (wth, really), overextending, leeroying, inability to pull, and then rudely trying to shove the blame to a variety of other factors when it was clearly them. Generally, at least half the time when I PUG, there's going to be a few of these in every team.

On the other hand, I did Slaver's Exile today and a couple of days back, and I was honestly very surprised by a few things, one of which was that one of the ursans actually listened to me when I gave him advice (I also apologised for being a little harsh and he took it all very calmly and good-naturedly.) Today I was lucky enough to get a good team that called targets, pulled, and took everything in good fun and was generally polite overall. The trouble is, experiences like these are few and far between.

Not everyone who PUGs is a bad or a rude player, but chances are that you're going to find people who are childish or rude or plain bad in each PUG. It gets frustrating and annoying, and after a while people don't want to play with PUGs any more because of these experiences.

Nessar · Jul 17, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

I'd take 7 heros over a pug anyday, but honestly lots of the pugs I've been in have been relatively good. I rarely find a bad pug. I just must be lucky because I've never found pugs as bad as the OP described o.O.

But yea 7 heros ftw, but I love social interaction too...

Phantom Flux · Jul 17, 2008, 07:06 AM // 07:06

/signed!!!! 100%

Joshthor · Jul 17, 2008, 07:09 AM // 07:09

this argument is way too one sided. i have met alot of good players in pugs, however, most ARE retarded. i still perfer people rather than heroes. they tend to live longer and they think on their feet. when your party is getting whiped they will move, when heroes will stay in one spot till they are all dead. no flaming me on saying "when your party is getting whiped" its happened to us all.
but i do think the hero cap should be raised. it wont kill PuGs, but in small missions/ towns it will be easier to finish.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 12, 2008, 06:17 AM // 06:17

After playing (and losing) with a Pickup Group that exhibited mental capacities that would be considered substandard in a kindergarten student, I would like to once more remind ArenaNet that there are player who would like to be able to run full-hero parties. This was after 30 minutes of trying to find a PUG (specifically to test their intelligence level) and being told "gtfo rit" "lol ritualist suckz" and "wer not taking ritualist" as well as numerous variations, again and again. Even the PUG players apparently agree with me - AI is better for the likes of us "bad classes."

Also, after testing with both healer henchmen in the Crystal Desert, being hit with blindness and crippled, and not once during the duration, having condition removal used on me despite the fact that when I tested it with Dunkoro he was quite capable of figuring it out on his own, I would like to remind ArenaNet that their henchmen are only moderately more intelligent than pickup groups and should have been replaced with heroes at this point in the game.

I urge H/H players to post in support of full-hero parties, for the betterment of Guild Wars and support of a large percentage of players.

I'd also like to take a shot at PUG supporters and say that the average PUG player seems to be around 8 years old and even the ones that aren't, do not provide the absolute obedience that I require from my H/H and human parties.

IronSheik · Aug 12, 2008, 07:37 PM // 19:37

/signed, I want a worker for anet to go into hell's precipice with a good build and say lfg, see what they get.

Xebedinct · Aug 12, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

What is the reasoning for having the hero cap anyway?

It can't be helping with socialism as all us H/H'ers use henchies over PUGers anyway. If I'm doing an Elite Mission or whatever a Hero group can't do I'll just get some guildies. Removing the hero cap would be the smart thing to do.

However, this is Anet...

Numa Pompilius · Aug 13, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

The thing is that "research has shown", and ANet certainly believes, that what keeps people playing is social interaction.
Hence every design decision since the introduction of heroes have aimed at getting people to PUG, or at least not H/H.

Now, I think ANet is wrong. I simply wouldn't play if I couldn't solo with H/H's, and the increasing focus on forced grouping is one of the reasons I wont be buying GW2, but what I think doesn't matter. What matter is what ANet believes, and they believe that people are happier, play more, and for longer, if they're forced to group.

In other words, as much as I would like it to go away, the three hero limit will disappear when hell freezes over.

Scary · Aug 13, 2008, 10:37 AM // 10:37

I could qoute al lot of these messages...

O yes would I like to have the option to add more hero's ..

The thing is.. I really like to plays days and days with H/H and would prefer
the hero above hench.
And there are stille days and days that I play with teams of our Alliance
when we do dungeons, Foe, Uw ore just vanquishing area,s.
And really enjoying the fun of doin things together.
And that wouldnt change if I get the option of more hero's

But Random Pugs... No, Ive tried them enough to know that, that wont give
me more pleasure in the game as playing with H/H.

So ....

/ Signed

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 13, 2008, 06:20 PM // 18:20

I'd like ArenaNet to have 3 weekends.

On the first one, they'll have no hero limit. People can take full hero parties.

On the second one, no heroes allowed. Only Henchmen.

On the third weekend, no AI at all allowed. Only humans.

See how much activity there is out in instances and such. I personally feel there will be a lot of activity the first, somewhat less the second, and quite a lot less on the third.

Ate of DK · Aug 13, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

I need a missing 3rd option.

No heroes, remove them from the game and, Anet, please don't even think about adding heroes in GW2. Heroes are not something I like to see in a massie multiplayer online game where the main goal is to achieve something with OTHER PEOPLE.

R.Shayne · Aug 13, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

On the first one, they'll have no hero limit. People can take full hero parties.

I will be in the UW, FoW, and Urgoz's Warren all weekend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

On the second one, no heroes allowed. Only Henchmen.

Sounds like prophecies all over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

On the third weekend, no AI at all allowed. Only humans.

If I play on this weekend I will be solo farming on this weekend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

Heroes are not something I like to see in a massie multiplayer online game where the main goal is to achieve something with OTHER PEOPLE.

My goal was to have fun and standing in town for 30 minutes looking for a party is not fun. Getting halfway through a elite mission and failing because several people decided to start leeching is not fun. I bought this game to have fun not to achieve anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars Manual

Want to play a difficult mission by yourself? Hire several henchmen.

I want to do a difficult mission, say the underworld, but wait you can't take henchmen to the underworld.